During 20 years of reporting on Israel and Palestine, I learned first-hand that Israel’s version of events around the deaths of Palestinians or foreigners can never be trusted
There is little support for this being a delibreate killing and anyone who seen street fighting in the gaza conflict up close knows that it is difficult to prevent friendly fire injuries. Israel is passionate about making sure innocents are not injured and endures great risks of its own soldiers to avoid the, Israel also embraces a strong free press. Any statements to the contrary are incorrect.
Just the other day, an IDF soldier said on TV, “Now that Ben Gvir is in, we can do what we want,” and was shown to proceed to beat a civilian who was heckling him.
“Israel” might not do these things, but individuals do.
What you have written above is nothing but dissembling or at best wishful thinking. If one does any basic research on this murder it is obvious that as the author of this article stated there is no evidence whatsoever that it wasn’t a targeted murder committed by The IDF! In fact every investigation that has been done so far by several different professional organizations Journalistic and otherwise has come to the same conclusion! The only organization that has not has been the IDF itself.
I doubt Israel killed Abu Akleh to send a message. I don’t doubt that somebody either shot her for whatever reason or acted recklessly, and that it was an Israeli.
Having said that: The reality is, Iran controls Lebanon through Hizbullah, Gaza through Hamas, and is a destabilizing force in the region and world, and if a Palestinian country were to be established in the West Bank, Iran would control that also via the same methods.
Israel was supposed to be a country for Jews to be first class, and not second class, citizens. It can’t be a society whereby there is a chance that Jews become a minority, or lose the right to self determination. Jews ended up in Israel because: 1) the Holocaust; 2) Arab expulsion; Immigration after that wouldn’t have happened without those two events of genocide and mass disenfranchisement.
If somebody can explain to me how to guarantee the Jews from Arab countries who were expelled, and their descendants, as well as Holocaust survivors and their descendants, sanctity WITHOUT special privileges, while ALSO guaranteeing the Palestinians the same within Israel, I’m listening.
"Israel was supposed to be a country for Jews to be first class, and not second class, citizens. It can’t be a society whereby there is a chance that Jews become a minority, or lose the right to self determination. "
It seems to me that citizenship in a nation with fair governance carries the risk that any one person can become a member of a minority, but may rest assured that the nation will protect a citizen's rights. All citizens have first class citizenship in a fairly governed nation.
I read J Cook's article and recall the way blacks are treated in America and Aboriginals are treated in Australia (where I live). Much needs to be done in my country to assure that members of the oldest living culture in the world can continue to persevere and provide their wisdom to a rapidly changing world. Aboriginal culture that extended across our continent, 250 years ago. It had persevered and refined its relation with the natural environment over 40,000 plus years. Aboriginals have suffered a holocaust since white settlement began here, in the early 1800s. In Tasmania, where I live, nearly the entire culture was wiped from the face of the island. The remainder of the people who claimed heritage, I would estimate less than 500 from nine language groups, are regaining their identity.
Here is an interesting story to read about the 'settling' of Tasmania. Of course there are others, from the settlers' point of view.
"Mudrooroo shows very early in the book that each death means the inevitable death of ancient culture and ceremonies too: when the Elder, Mangana dies, he is buried according to white custom, and Wooreddy as the only surviving male of the community organises the overnight removal of the body to the other side of the island where it can be ‘cremated in the proper way’ (p57). "
I agree with that, but the issue remains: would Israel, with a Jewish minority, remain a Jewish state in a democracy?
The only way that happens is if there is a guarantee in the document - which is why the Jews as a people have not written a constitution for Israel:
The Torah, the document that Jews can actually point to and say, “Here is my claim,” is a constitution for Israel. And it is supposed to be a guide to “the ideal society,” whereby indeed, everybody’s rights are guaranteed - as it is written, “one law for the Israelite and the non-Israelite, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
But obviously that requires some litigation, understanding, interpretation, and acceptance: non-Jews have no voting rights, no land ownership rights (can’t sell the Land, only lease) nor governing rights according to the Torah, but their rights to equality and protection are guaranteed.
Obviously that hasn’t worked well for the Jews in the Diaspora, but then again, the Torah never said it would. It’s definitely a pickle.
I do not understand how a religious text of any sort can provide a basis for the just rule of a modern state, in a world of modern (say Wesphalian) states.
The Torah, the King James Bible, the Quran, these and other texts may be suited to another world of government, but not our current precarious first world, driven as it is by economic influences that King Canute cannot control.
The Torah is: a document that describes the functioning of the universe. We might not understand it that way, but that doesn’t change what it is.
Just because people don’t understand something, or misunderstand something, doesn’t invalidate it.
I realize that you don’t see it that way, and neither does anybody else - so what? When I look at the world, it is obvious that people don’t understand a lot of things - so what? If I could explain it better I would, but nobody has the time. So, I’ll wait until they do - like when everything is really, really bad.
Much as the Australian Aboriginal dream-time explains the world, as they knew it 300+ years ago. Further, their knowledge of Australia's geography is deep across time, and has invaluable lessons for humans on the verge of climate tipping points. As I said in my first post, they also suffered a holocaust when England colonised Tasmania.
Here is an interesting view of the impact of British policy on the middle -east. The text of the address is included.
Another good read, along with 'Dr Wooreddy's Prescription'.
There is little support for this being a delibreate killing and anyone who seen street fighting in the gaza conflict up close knows that it is difficult to prevent friendly fire injuries. Israel is passionate about making sure innocents are not injured and endures great risks of its own soldiers to avoid the, Israel also embraces a strong free press. Any statements to the contrary are incorrect.
Just the other day, an IDF soldier said on TV, “Now that Ben Gvir is in, we can do what we want,” and was shown to proceed to beat a civilian who was heckling him.
“Israel” might not do these things, but individuals do.
What you have written above is nothing but dissembling or at best wishful thinking. If one does any basic research on this murder it is obvious that as the author of this article stated there is no evidence whatsoever that it wasn’t a targeted murder committed by The IDF! In fact every investigation that has been done so far by several different professional organizations Journalistic and otherwise has come to the same conclusion! The only organization that has not has been the IDF itself.
I doubt Israel killed Abu Akleh to send a message. I don’t doubt that somebody either shot her for whatever reason or acted recklessly, and that it was an Israeli.
Having said that: The reality is, Iran controls Lebanon through Hizbullah, Gaza through Hamas, and is a destabilizing force in the region and world, and if a Palestinian country were to be established in the West Bank, Iran would control that also via the same methods.
Israel was supposed to be a country for Jews to be first class, and not second class, citizens. It can’t be a society whereby there is a chance that Jews become a minority, or lose the right to self determination. Jews ended up in Israel because: 1) the Holocaust; 2) Arab expulsion; Immigration after that wouldn’t have happened without those two events of genocide and mass disenfranchisement.
If somebody can explain to me how to guarantee the Jews from Arab countries who were expelled, and their descendants, as well as Holocaust survivors and their descendants, sanctity WITHOUT special privileges, while ALSO guaranteeing the Palestinians the same within Israel, I’m listening.
re
"Israel was supposed to be a country for Jews to be first class, and not second class, citizens. It can’t be a society whereby there is a chance that Jews become a minority, or lose the right to self determination. "
It seems to me that citizenship in a nation with fair governance carries the risk that any one person can become a member of a minority, but may rest assured that the nation will protect a citizen's rights. All citizens have first class citizenship in a fairly governed nation.
I read J Cook's article and recall the way blacks are treated in America and Aboriginals are treated in Australia (where I live). Much needs to be done in my country to assure that members of the oldest living culture in the world can continue to persevere and provide their wisdom to a rapidly changing world. Aboriginal culture that extended across our continent, 250 years ago. It had persevered and refined its relation with the natural environment over 40,000 plus years. Aboriginals have suffered a holocaust since white settlement began here, in the early 1800s. In Tasmania, where I live, nearly the entire culture was wiped from the face of the island. The remainder of the people who claimed heritage, I would estimate less than 500 from nine language groups, are regaining their identity.
Here is an interesting story to read about the 'settling' of Tasmania. Of course there are others, from the settlers' point of view.
"Mudrooroo shows very early in the book that each death means the inevitable death of ancient culture and ceremonies too: when the Elder, Mangana dies, he is buried according to white custom, and Wooreddy as the only surviving male of the community organises the overnight removal of the body to the other side of the island where it can be ‘cremated in the proper way’ (p57). "
from
https://anzlitlovers.com/2012/05/27/doctor-wooreddys-prescription-for-enduring-the-ending-of-the-world-by-mudrooroo/
Mudrooroo Nyoongah, Doctor Wooreddy's Prescription for Enduring the Ending of the World ISBN 978-0-947062-02-6
I agree with that, but the issue remains: would Israel, with a Jewish minority, remain a Jewish state in a democracy?
The only way that happens is if there is a guarantee in the document - which is why the Jews as a people have not written a constitution for Israel:
The Torah, the document that Jews can actually point to and say, “Here is my claim,” is a constitution for Israel. And it is supposed to be a guide to “the ideal society,” whereby indeed, everybody’s rights are guaranteed - as it is written, “one law for the Israelite and the non-Israelite, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
But obviously that requires some litigation, understanding, interpretation, and acceptance: non-Jews have no voting rights, no land ownership rights (can’t sell the Land, only lease) nor governing rights according to the Torah, but their rights to equality and protection are guaranteed.
Obviously that hasn’t worked well for the Jews in the Diaspora, but then again, the Torah never said it would. It’s definitely a pickle.
I do not understand how a religious text of any sort can provide a basis for the just rule of a modern state, in a world of modern (say Wesphalian) states.
The Torah, the King James Bible, the Quran, these and other texts may be suited to another world of government, but not our current precarious first world, driven as it is by economic influences that King Canute cannot control.
The Torah is: a document that describes the functioning of the universe. We might not understand it that way, but that doesn’t change what it is.
Just because people don’t understand something, or misunderstand something, doesn’t invalidate it.
I realize that you don’t see it that way, and neither does anybody else - so what? When I look at the world, it is obvious that people don’t understand a lot of things - so what? If I could explain it better I would, but nobody has the time. So, I’ll wait until they do - like when everything is really, really bad.
Much as the Australian Aboriginal dream-time explains the world, as they knew it 300+ years ago. Further, their knowledge of Australia's geography is deep across time, and has invaluable lessons for humans on the verge of climate tipping points. As I said in my first post, they also suffered a holocaust when England colonised Tasmania.
Here is an interesting view of the impact of British policy on the middle -east. The text of the address is included.
Another good read, along with 'Dr Wooreddy's Prescription'.
https://mondoweiss.net/2022/11/a-palestinian-address-to-balfour-in-honor-of-truth-memory-and-justice/
This detailed report of the extra judicial killings by Israel over the years is as depressing as it is thorough! We seem stuck in an endless cycle.
Having Israeli investigate their killing of Shireen Abu Akleh is like Minneapolis police investigate their killing of George Floyd!